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+---- Thread: Was this brought up on 3/12 also? (/thread-3002.html)
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
I was at the track on Sat 3/11 racing electric truck, and it was announced over the PA that starting next week, due to problems relating to people not returning transponders after their races, that a $5 rental fee was going to be charged to use the track's transponders. So now it will cost you $20 to race instead of $15 like anyone who own a personal.
Now, I have been racing since the late '80's and have never had to pay for the use of a piece of equipment that up until the availablity of personal transponders was simply provided for in the fees paid to race. So, since I don't feel the need to go and spend 90+ dollars on a personal transponder that I may use twice a month when I go race only during the winter, I am forced to pay extra money because someone else doesn't have enough responsibility to return their transponders after they race?
I am not trying to turn this into a bash thread toward LHR, but whoever made this decision needs to rethink it, IMO. If a person has shown in the past that this is a problem for THEM, then put them on a list and take a $5 DEPOSIT on the transponder. If that is not sufficient to remedy the problem for that particular person, then deal with that person accordingly. Don't make the average joe who has never had this problem pay for other's irresponsibility.
mash:I was just curious what everyone else thinks of this new policy that is being considered.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - RCDad - 03-14-2006
When I raced at Tinley Park we always had to pay a transponder fee of $5. I'm so glad I have my own.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - Traxxas_Junkee - 03-14-2006
yeah, maybe a deposit would be a better idea, even though i dont race.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
I have raced at more tracks than I can even remember over the years, and I have never once had to pay any kind of rental fee for a transponder. I may race 2 or three times a month, and only during the seasons I can't drag race (my other hobby), so I don't feel the need to go spend even more $$$ on something that should be provided as part of the fees, especially since not everyone is the cause of the problem.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - DAVEC-NITRO-RS4 - 03-14-2006
It's a rental fee? Not a deposit? Because if the issue was people putting them in the rack after each race, a rental fee won't solve that.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - satoch - 03-14-2006
I understand the fee. It helps pay for those who may race once and then forget and walk off with a transponder. It also helps generate sales of personals for those serious about racing.
I think it's easy to see that considering the level of investment and the seriousness of the racing here that steps must be made to accomodate those who are more proficient and dedicated.
Timed practices by vehicle class with no more than 10 drivers on the stand needs to be next so that quality practice time can be spent on the track. This insanity with 20 people on the stand has to stop! Especially when half of them are bashers who need constant marshalling. I understand that people need to learn, that's fine. But it shouldn't be at the expense of others.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
satoch Wrote:I understand the fee. It helps pay for those who may race once and then forget and walk off with a transponder. It also helps generate sales of personals for those serious about racing.
I think it's easy to see that considering the level of investment and the seriousness of the racing here that steps must be made to accomodate those who are more proficient and dedicated.
Define serious. Am I less serious about racing because I can't be at every race? Since I haven't "invested" in a personal, I do not deserve the same treatment as everyone else at the race? Because I don't own a personal, I am less proficient at racing than the guy next to me who has one? I don't know about anyone else here, but I race because I enjoy it and it gives me a chance to spend some time away from home with my daughter. I may not win every race that I enter, but I am very competitive every time. And as far as level of investment over the years, I seriously doubt that you can even begin to comprehend how much money I have invested in this hobby. It's not the money I am questioning here, it's the point of being charged for something, basically being forced to buy something that should be provided as part of the service offered by the track. Plain and simple. I find it offensive that you feel that if you invest more money into the racing experience you feel that you deserve special accomodations.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - DAVEC-NITRO-RS4 - 03-14-2006
Then perhaps the answer is raise fees for racing to $20 for everyone?
If you have a transponder of your own, you are just saving time and hassle with swapping out rental units.
But if the track is incurring costs because racers are leaving at the end of the day with transponders, that's another issue. Then it is the users of rental units that need to foot the expense.
I suspect it is a good time for someone to do another bulk purchase of AMB's and start selling them, because the demand is going to increase.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
DAVEC-NITRO-RS4 Wrote:Then perhaps the answer is raise fees for racing to $20 for everyone?
If you have a transponder of your own, you are just saving time and hassle with swapping out rental units.
But if the track is incurring costs because racers are leaving at the end of the day with transponders, that's another issue. Then it is the users of rental units that need to foot the expense.
I suspect it is a good time for someone to do another bulk purchase of AMB's and start selling them, because the demand is going to increase.
I'm not saying that is the answer either. I am not in favor of anyone who is not directly responsible for the problem having to foot the bill for it. It was said on Saturday that the problem was the time it took to get the units back if they were accidently taken home, not the cost of replacement. Seriously, do you see any new transponders on the rack? What cost is being incurred? If the people who have shown in the past they have a problem with returning them, make them pay to use them. Simple. Why is it that for 20 plus years, it was not an issue, but now that a buck stands to be made from selling personals, it is?
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - DAVEC-NITRO-RS4 - 03-14-2006
I don't know the answer, Mike.
A deposit system would work only if you could assign the transponder to one racer for the whole day. But then you would need MANY more of the rental units.
IDK???
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
DAVEC-NITRO-RS4 Wrote:I don't know the answer, Mike.
A deposit system would work only if you could assign the transponder to one racer for the whole day. But then you would need MANY more of the rental units.
IDK???
Why is that? It would be the same as a rental. You are still only going to be assigned a numbered transponder that you will need to return between races, I'm sure. It would be the same as now where they take your license and give it back when you leave. Instead, you give them your license and $5. When you go home, and the transponder is in the rack, you get your $ back.
Like I said initially, I'm not trying to start problems. It just seems that there is a better solution to this besides making everyone who needs a transponder pay for others lack of responsibility.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - RCDad - 03-14-2006
The transponder issue is another one that is a real problem. When I used the house transponders I tried to remove it as quickly as possible because I knew someone was waiting. But, I've stood there and waited for far too long for someone to remember to bring one back.
I'm sure Bernie is no where near what he's invested in this track and probably won't be for awhile, having to incur the cost of transponders that people walk off with is asking too much. I don't see a way of policing them unless a track worked stands there physically at the tables to make sure people are returning them.
I'd hate to see everyones race cost to go up $5 to offset the cost for those who have stolen a transponder.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - DAVEC-NITRO-RS4 - 03-14-2006
Deposit system doesn't indentify the user who takes it. Several racers use the same number throughout the day. How do you ID the guy who takes it home? Or do they presume it's the last racer who used it? Maybe it would work.
I'm glad I decided that the personal unit was an expense I needed to build in if I was gonna race. Now I don't think about it.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
RCDad Wrote:I'd hate to see everyones race cost to go up $5 to offset the cost for those who have stolen a transponder.
My point exactly...why should my race cost go up if I've never stolen a transponder. Just because I use a house one like I have for what seems like forever, why do I have to pay for other people's irresponsibility. For as often as I race, it just doesn't make sense for me to go buy a personal, but on the other side, it makes even less sense in my mind to pay for someone else's problem in lacking to return them.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - Traxxas_Junkee - 03-14-2006
maybe it would be a good idea to do the deposit system and then after each race/qualifier have the person that used it last go check in with someone and have a clipboard with everyones name on it and check them off that they put the transponder back.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
Traxxas_Junkee Wrote:maybe it would be a good idea to do the deposit system and then after each race/qualifier have the person that used it last go check in with someone and have a clipboard with everyones name on it and check them off that they put the transponder back.
During the race day it is easy to know who has it. If it's not there, they announce that the red 4 or whatever is missing, bring it back. If the person broke and accidentally took it home, then you know who has it. If it's not there after the day, then the last person who used it has it. If they didn't pick up their license and $5, you know who has it. How hard is this? After the last main, bring the transponder board in the hobby shop with the $ and licenses. If all the transponders are there, everyone gets their stuff back. If not, find out who had it last, and then give the stuff back. No extra people...no extra work...no extra $ needed, and all the transponders are back home safe and everyone is happy. Wow.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - RCDad - 03-14-2006
I would really be shocked if people are purposefully stealing them. I mean there are items laying around that are worth far more. I find the caliber of honesty at the track very high.
I would really like to see Bernie hire someone who would be by the transponders to watch whats going on, the same person could help with marshalls, frequency clips, etc. During the races I only know of one person watching anything and that's the guy running the computer?
If a transponder is not returned immediately he could signal the guy at the computer to stop everything until the transponder is found.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - Tex - 03-14-2006
Was this 'issue" stated directly to the race directors face on Saturday spdrcr999? Or did you just come home from the track and make YOUR issues public?
I don't have an issue with a $5 rental fee, I say make it $10. Maybe more people will buy a P/T then.
if you race 2 times a month @ $5 a race then before a year is up you would have paid for a personal by then. YET you still would have to keep paying the rental fee.
My advice would be to buy a P/T asap. If you don't have the cash, save.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - GWPHOENIX - 03-14-2006
i already have a personal transponder . 2 infact. and to read about a price hike for something some other people do is compleatly BS. everyone pays enugh as it is to race.if you are not smart enugh and responsible enugh to return a LOANER you should be band from the track.all the directer should do is get peoples phone # when they register,if its gone at the end of the day you have only a few calls to make. no # no race !
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
Tex Wrote:Was this 'issue" stated directly to the race directors face on Saturday spdrcr999? Or did you just come home from the track and make YOUR issues public?
I don't have an issue with a $5 rental fee, I say make it $10. Maybe more people will buy a P/T then.
if you race 2 times a month @ $5 a race then before a year is up you would have paid for a personal by then. YET you still would have to keep paying the rental fee.
My advice would be to buy a P/T asap. If you don't have the cash, save.
Trust me there, Tex, this was stated directly to the race director's face, AND discussed throughout the evening in a civilized manner. I made my points and made my suggestions concerning the issue. I don't feel that this is MY issue, it concerns everyone who doesn't have a personal transponder - including the kids and other folks who are just gettting into the hobby (that just got a bit more expensive). Since you already have one, you are one step ahead of the game...BUT...put yourself in a position where you don't. I assume that you are a responsible individual who grew up racing in a format where you paid your fee, were issued transponder numbers, raced, put your car in the impound, removed your transponder, and went to marshall. You probably never had a problem with the system except maybe the occasional time where someone forgot to take it out of their car. When that happened, the race director made an announcement looking for the transponder - usually by name - to the person who used it last. The system worked pretty darn good for a LONG time, and it still can. SO, putting yourself back in that position, how would you feel if all of a sudden, you had to pay for the same thing because SOMEONE ELSE forgot to remove their transponder? If you look at it objectively, you will see my point. If not, don't worry about it, after all you already have a p/t.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
GWPHOENIX Wrote:i already have a personal transponder . 2 infact. and to read about a price hike for something some other people do is compleatly BS. everyone pays enugh as it is to race.if you are not smart enugh and responsible enugh to return a LOANER you should be band from the track.all the directer should do is get peoples phone # when they register,if its gone at the end of the day you have only a few calls to make. no # no race !
Very good suggestion pheonix, and one that does not include raising the price to race.
alute:
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - Tex - 03-14-2006
I just got my P/T about 3 months ago. I think the best system is to give your car keys up in place of a loaner transponder. Then you CAN'T leave with a transponder because you don't have any car keys.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - Traxxas_Junkee - 03-14-2006
Good idea Tex, but I know I don't have drivers liscense yet, and there for no car keys, I would NEVER think about taking something of someone else's but I was talking to someone at the track and they left an EZ start out on the starting tables and someone walked up took the battery and the ezstart apart and kept them both. It was someones little brother that was tagging along at the track that day. The stuff was returned but what about the kids/people that don't have car keys?
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - spdrcr999 - 03-14-2006
Tex Wrote:I just got my P/T about 3 months ago. I think the best system is to give your car keys up in place of a loaner transponder. Then you CAN'T leave with a transponder because you don't have any car keys.
That's fine too, if that's what they wanna do. But what about the kids? I'm just saying that it's already expensive to do this on a competitive level. Another fee for something that has many other solutions - all requiring minimal effort on the part of the track staff - are available. I'm not trying to bash anyone or any system here. I just want LH to take a look at other options before making everyone pay.
Was this brought up on 3/12 also? - Tex - 03-14-2006
If you are racing on a competative level you should have a P/T period.