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+--- Thread: For The Car Guys (/thread-5758.html)
For The Car Guys - FreeRideFrosty - 01-22-2007
Well I found this absolutely amazing. Make sure you check you the power numbers compared to the displacement. I bet it would be absolutely insane in any smaller car. I am curious what the exhaust would sound like as well. Small displacement but the timing would be very close together like a V-10 or V-12. Simply an amazing project though.
http://www.atomracing.se/6M.html
For The Car Guys - squirrel - 01-22-2007
Audi already has a W engine except there are 6 cylinders on each side and they are offset. So they are not aligned perfectly. Turns a 12 cylinder motor into the size of a V-8. But thats a cool motor, along the lines of the Wankel.
![[Image: VW-W12.jpg]](http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f281/squirrellives89/VW-W12.jpg)
For The Car Guys - Thirdgen89GTA - 01-22-2007
Well it kind of makes it smaller.
However, its still 6 cylinders long (2 longer than a v8), so its more narrow than a traditional v12. I wonder what the cylinder bank angle is. 60* block possibily.
Do you have a link? Or just the picture. Curious to know its other specs. Obviously its a DOHC design, and possibly dry sump as well because the oil pan doesn't look too deep. The V angle looks too small to be a 90* block, probably closer to 60* but it could be wider or narrower.
For The Car Guys - FreeRideFrosty - 01-22-2007
Of course Tommy. They are completely different though. (I know my VW's/Audi's Haha). They also have the W-8 that fits where a V-6 normally does. It is not a perfectly offset W like this new motor though. They take 6 cylinders on one side in the case of the W-12, and stagger them, they do the same on the other side. The furthest in cylinders (towards the middle) never really come close to each other so it isn't really the same thing. (I know you proably know this just trying to explain it for everyone else.) The W motor in the link is similar to the wenkel in the sense that it fires on 3 axis's, but they are not a perfect 120* apart like the wenkel rotary.
W-9 Motor in the link:
O....O....O
O....O....O
O....O....O
VW's W-12
O..........O
...O....O...
O..........O
...O....O...
O..........O
...O....O...
Or they are like this.... I am doubting myself now:
O......O....
....O......O
O......O....
....O......O
O......O....
....O......O
I think that is about the best way to represent the cylinders on a keyboard.... The view would be looking down from the top.
For The Car Guys - squirrel - 01-22-2007
FreeRideFrosty Wrote:Of course Tommy. They are completely different though. (I know my VW's/Audi's Haha). They also have the W-8 that fits where a V-6 normally does. It is not a perfectly offset W like this new motor though. They take 6 cylinders on one side in the case of the W-12, and stagger them, they do the same on the other side. The furthest in cylinders (towards the middle) never really come close to each other so it isn't really the same thing. (I know you proably know this just trying to explain it for everyone else.) The W motor in the link is similar to the wenkel in the sense that it fires on 3 axis's, but they are not a perfect 120* apart like the wenkel rotary.I wasn't saying they were the same, just pointing out the idea is tried and proven. I'm not positive which configuration is correct, I think it's the second diagram.
W-9 Motor in the link:
O....O....O
O....O....O
O....O....O
VW's W-12
O..........O
...O....O...
O..........O
...O....O...
O..........O
...O....O...
Or they are like this.... I am doubting myself now:
O......O....
....O......O
O......O....
....O......O
O......O....
....O......O
I think that is about the best way to represent the cylinders on a keyboard.... The view would be looking down from the top.
Quote:Well it kind of makes it smaller.
However, its still 6 cylinders long (2 longer than a v8), so its more narrow than a traditional v12. I wonder what the cylinder bank angle is. 60* block possibily.
Do you have a link? Or just the picture. Curious to know its other specs. Obviously its a DOHC design, and possibly dry sump as well because the oil pan doesn't look too deep. The V angle looks too small to be a 90* block, probably closer to 60* but it could be wider or narrower.
It makes it a lot smaller than a straight 6 because the cylinders are alot closer than you would think, that and the fact that the displacement isn't that high. And I do believe it's a 60 degree angle. I'll look for more specs for everyone.
For The Car Guys - squirrel - 01-22-2007
Heres a link to a lot of info on the motor and some good pics. I'll look for specs to.
Also Dan below is a copy of the text in the link, audi and VW stopped trying to make your motor(in the first post) because of problems.
Quote:The W configuration would have been never realised if not the invention of VR6. Audi had been researching its own W-engines for years (even showed in the Avus concept car, but the engine was fake) but eventually pulled out the plug. I remember sources said it failed to solve the exhaust / ventilation problems. It was basically formed by 3 banks of 4-cylinder in-line. The problem was how to run the exhaust pipe for the center bank without overheating the surrounding and without wasting too much space.
http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_packaging.htm#W12
VW W12 specs
http://www.fantasycars.com/1/2001/VWW12/vww12.html
For The Car Guys - Ponch - 01-22-2007
That motor has to be fun as hell to get the timing right on.<-Note the sarcasm
For The Car Guys - mikeh - 01-22-2007
I built one of those last year. Sheesh.
For The Car Guys - FreeRideFrosty - 01-22-2007
squirrel Wrote:Heres a link to a lot of info on the motor and some good pics. I'll look for specs to.
Also Dan below is a copy of the text in the link, audi and VW stopped trying to make your motor(in the first post) because of problems.
http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/tech_engine_packaging.htm#W12
VW W12 specs
http://www.fantasycars.com/1/2001/VWW12/vww12.html
Bingo. My second diagram was right. The VW motor is tried and true already. The motor that this guy made isn't. Although you would think VW would have all of the top engineers working on it, there is always someone else out there. Maybe this guy changed a few things and has a new, very reliable, monster of a motor. I would love to see it in person though.
For The Car Guys - Thirdgen89GTA - 01-22-2007
What we really need is MORE pictures of the engine from different angles. To see how the ports line up on the exhaust.